On a remote mountain on the border between China and North Korea, young Bruce Wayne begins his martial arts training with the legendary master Kirigi and makes allies and enemies in Batman: The Knight #4, written by Chip Zdarsky, drawn by Carmine Di Giandomenico, colored by Ivan Plascencia and lettered by Pat Brosseau.
As DCās second somewhat controversial Round Robin pick-a-title tournament nears its climax, the winner of the first contest comes to its print conclusion. This week, weāre going to do a quick series overview of Robins, written by Tim Seeley, drawn by Baldemar Rivas, colored by Romulo Fajardo Jr. and lettered by Steve Wands.
And since we are light on Bat titles this week, some of our BatChat faithful have asked questions, and Matt and Will are gonna answer them. Follow the podcast and column @BatChatComics and of course ComicsXF @ComicsXF on Twitter if you donāt; maybe next time weāll answer YOUR question.
Matt Lazorwitz: Well, this is weird. Only two Bat books this week. Well, three if you count Worldās Finest, but our buddies Armaan and Tony are covering that over on SuperChat this week.
Will Nevin: Itās a helluva lot easier to find three Bat books when you have one thatās weekly. So DC editorial, if youāre reading, please bring that gimmick back whenever you can. I donāt know how often we can go to the mailbag, but weāre certainly glad for the friends and Loyal Content Consumers who bravely stepped up this week to help us make #content.
A Bat Went Up the Mountain
Matt: OK, so letās start with the big question, the one that immediately hit me as Bruce met his new friend in this book: Is that a young Ghost-Maker, and if so, is this the way to make us at last not hate him as much? By letting us see him younger and less of a tool?
Will: I absolutely *dreaded* the possibility that this Anton fella was actually Ghost-Maker. I hated him a wee bit less when he was made canonically bisexual, but nothing could ever possibly make me like Ghost-Maker, and I think anyone who does should 1) get their head examined and 2) stop talking to me about Batman for ā¦ maybe forever? He sucks. Completely. Without end. So, yeah, I pray this is not He Who Vexes Will So and is in actuality a secret assassin, which I think the last page was getting at.
Matt: True, that is a possibility. Now, hereās a deeper question: How does the white guy learning martial arts stuff in this issue feel to you? Thereās so much of this in pop culture, and while Kirigi is an established part of Batman canon, and this wasnāt heavy on some of the worst trappings of that trope, it still was there. Iāve been rolling that over in my mind since I read this issue.
Will: I donāt think I have much of an eye/ear for what could be the offensive tropes and stereotypes here. Nothing stuck out to me, at least. Someone versed in the sensitivities might spot something, and I certainly wouldnāt argue with them. At least we didnāt get a bunch of mysticism hogwash? Kirigi himself said his students were there for āthe workā and not some form of āenlightenmentā or something we might have seen in a David Carradine property.
Matt: Yes, I didnāt see anything either, and the fact that while Bruce was possibly the best, he wasnāt trouncing everyone at all times? That removed some of the Iron Fist of it. And in the end he leaves rather than becomes a white savior, which was good as well. But if someone out there has a more informed point, PLEASE let me know. I would love to hear from you and be better informed.
Also, I really want to call out again how gorgeous the Carmine Di Giandomenico art is. The more I see, the more I think there are few artists in comics who handle combat as well. There are some big, complex fights in this issue, and I was able to follow them all. Bravo!
Will: I donāt know if Iād call this essential reading, but the series has been super solid. I think this Zdarsky fella should get a crack at the main Bat book if you ask me.
Round Robins
Matt: So, did you read this whole series in one fell swoop, Will?
Will: One dreadful swallow, Brother Matt.
Matt: Yeah, this? This ranged from just OK at best to pretty painful at worst. Never offensive, but never really engaging either. This makes me really annoyed at that Round Robin thing, because I donāt remember the other pitches, but Iām sure there was stuff that had more oomph to it, something different, that was passed over, because Bat titles have name recognition.
Will: Itās offensive to the Nightwing fans out there, at least. Itās hard to say that Dick has a ālikenessā in the same way that actual living, breathing people have likenesses, but however you might imagine Dick to look, there were some moments in this series that werenāt even close.
Matt: Oh, yes, the art is all over the G-D place. I think there is an interesting idea here, this proto-Robin, but itās all over the place. And I know, Iām just being me, and he gets one up on Jenny Wren at the end, but I donāt like seeing Tim get treated like heās the rube of the group.
Will: Yāall done fucked up and made Matt swear. Thatās serious business. Not to go back to the last book (but to totally go back to the last book), one of the reasons that Ghost-Maker is fundamentally broken and dead to me is that heās a contrived artifice, a character squeezed into the continuity who weāre told has been this lifelong frenemy to Bruce. I *hate* the idea that this proto-Robin was central to the rise of Dick. No. Just no. You donāt get to invent continuity for what will be a forgettable miniseries ā forgettable only, of course, in its content and not the blood-thirsty #content gristmill in which it was created.
Matt:This also gets back into that hyper-prepared, hyper-paranoid Batman, but only when it suits it. He has these Redbreast files that show what the Robins would be if not for being Robins, another super creepy thing, but he didnāt check for Jenny Wrenās body after he was able to stop the fire she supposedly jumped into? I know this is a young Batman, but even then he should know: no body, no death.
Will: The sci-fi hologram tech in this series was exhausting and stupid. I hated it.
Matt: Hmmmm ā¦ I think that might play into a question we have from our readers. Shall we move on?
Will: The nicest thing I have to say about Robins is that it was six issues and not seven or eight. Letās.
Questions!
@brawl2099 asks: Which franchise has more bad stories: Batman or Spider-Man?
Will: Iāve only really read Reign, and I didnāt hate it, so I might be the wrong person for this one.
Matt: Iām a Spidey dilettante, popping in for the well-regarded stuff and the occasional just interesting story, and then wandering away. So my overall exposure to Spider-Man is probably better. However, there is no single era in Batman history so reviled as The Clone Saga, at least as duration goes, and not any Batman story as almost universally detested as One More Day, so I think the odds are in Batmanās favor.
@AustinGorton asks: Was Batman making pre-Crisis Jason Todd dye his hair to make him look more like Dick a little creepy, or just a reasonable bit of secret ID protection?
Matt: OK, there are obviously two answers to this: in universe and publishing. Publishing, it was just convenient, so new readers wouldnāt be confused by the red-haired Robin, so I guess thatās closer to the latter. The in-universe? Yeah, itās creepy. How could anyone assume Robin lost probably 6 inches of height and 50 pounds? There is no way that pre-Crisis Batman wasnāt a little broken at that point. Itās weird.
Will: Only a monster would dye natural red hair.
@Eddie_Piss asks: Is Carmine Falcone a good character?
Will: Iāll turn this around on you, Matt: What makes Carmine unique and not a stock mob boss? Not that thatās a bad thing ā I think Batmanās world needs someone to serve as the godfather of organized crime ā but what makes him special as a character outside of the context of Batman?
Matt: I think the Falcone of a lot of other media is a pretty generic mobster. And the one in Year One is, as well, which was fine for what he was there. Itās Long Halloween where he becomes something else. There heās the representative of the old guard, struggling to exist in, and sometimes compromise with, the rising of a new age, the age of the freak. That is a good character. Outside of that? Heās just sort of there.
@Christian_S asks: You can each revert one Bat or Bat-adjacent character to the status quo of just before the Nu52 hit. Who is it and why?
Matt: Tim Drake. Because of course itās Tim Drake. Tim had real purpose right before New 52, and there were threads that were just abandoned from that first Red Robin series. Tim was a little haunted, a little darker and was working his way back, while also doing real work by heading up youth centers for at-risk teens in Gotham. If we could roll back to that, while keeping his now canonical queerness? That would be a great place for my boy Tim to be.
Will: Iām going to choose violence and suggest that the New 52 should have been a hard continuity reset for Batman ā take us allllll the way back to the beginning, reset the Robins and remake the Bat world for the 21st century. I realize I have no friends amongst the Bat fan fam now, but at least that would have gotten us out of the last few rote Joker events. Maybe.
@danielpgrote asks: Does Batman have a Hulk?
Matt: Yes, yes he does:
Also remember, Alfred does too. In the Silver Age, Alfred turned into the Outsider, a chalky-skinned guy in short shorts who wanted to kill Batman after nearly dying. Ah, the Silver Ageā¦
Will: Batman: The Devastator doesnāt need a Hulk. He *is* the Hulk.
And finally, the greatest Twitter questioner of all time, @asimov_fangirl, asks these two questions:
1) Batman is a pretty flexible character that can be in almost any kind of story. But, in your opinion, which kind of stories doesnāt he fit?
Matt: Are there any genres completely off limits? No. But I find a truly hardcore sci-fi Batman harder to enjoy. I like detective Batman stories, shocking no one who has read or listened to any of my commentary on Batman, so a truly sci-fi Batman who is using gadgets way more than heās using his native intellect? Not a fan. He can exist in that setting, sure, but Iād prefer Bladerunner Batman to Star Trek Batman.
Will: Iāll concur with Brother Matt here. Sci-fi Batman is the worst Batman.
2) Is Bruce a Criterion guy?
Matt: Absolutely. He doesnāt get much time to watch movies, but when he does, it is only the finest. Dick and Tim will watch them with him, too. Damian and Cass like their anime bootlegs (subs, if not just original Japanese with no subtitles). Jason is a grindhouse man; he still watches them on VHS if he can. Steph? Comedies of any sort, the quicker witted the better; they can be Criterion or just from the $5 bin at Target.
Will: All true men of leisure are Criterion men ā myself included. (Sweet, my For All Mankind pre-order shipped.)
Bat-miscellany
- This week was also supposed to be Justice League #75, the Death of the Justice League, including Batman, but shipping schedules are known to shift, but ranked-order lists really canāt, and so we release to tie in with, well, next weekās historic issue three stories about the death of Batman.
- SuperChat with Worldās Finest will be up this weekend, so I wonāt spoil anything if youāre waiting for the review, but I love this comic.
- Matt says we get Worldās Finest next month. We better.
Matt Lazorwitz read his first comic at the age of five. It was Who's Who in the DC Universe #2, featuring characters whose names begin with B, which explains so much about his Batman obsession. He writes about comics he loves, and co-hosts the creator interview podcast WMQ&A with Dan Grote.
Will Nevin loves bourbon and AP style and gets paid to teach one of those things. He is on Twitter far too often.
